tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post1838629779465521352..comments2023-08-14T16:25:12.421+01:00Comments on Medieval Church Art: I saw something today that really annoyed me.Allan Bartonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00499774849106432968noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-1580197437610283122010-02-03T16:18:12.485+00:002010-02-03T16:18:12.485+00:00Canon Tallis, yes, the last time I checked Watts &...Canon Tallis, yes, the last time I checked Watts & Co still carried the angels.Davis d'Amblynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-18518453735119766672010-01-15T04:58:42.168+00:002010-01-15T04:58:42.168+00:00Ok, it is plainly horrible, but what strikes me mo...Ok, it is plainly horrible, but what strikes me most is how splendid and grand the proportions are even with the disgusting frontal and the loss of the riddel curtains. As an American I have seen too many churches, both Roman and Anglican, where the proportions were all so horrible that like my daughter's house, they would need to be razed to the ground so that one could start over.<br /><br />Is it really true that the angels are still available? I would like four of them for my own altar.Canon Tallishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05182884929479435751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-68701626930714056852010-01-05T13:40:45.869+00:002010-01-05T13:40:45.869+00:00I am pleased you are keeping a watching eye on Eas...I am pleased you are keeping a watching eye on East Markham even though getting results will be uphill work. The burse and veil you mention are probably part of the set of red vestments I saw in the 1970s. Because of the colour and relatively infrequent use they were in good condition. I doubt if the tapestry vestments with orphreys of diced braid are Comper's because he did not use braid of that kind and disliked it. On the other hand, surprises are to be found in his early work. <br /><br />Personally, I think that what has happened at East Markham is symptomatic of the ignorance and bad taste that has enveloped the Church of England during the last forty years. Don't respond by reminding me of the bad taste found in the Roman Church; it is too self-evident to need comment.Anthony Symondson SJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-40742768673466986262010-01-05T10:53:32.859+00:002010-01-05T10:53:32.859+00:00Thank you father, I had hoped you would comment on...Thank you father, I had hoped you would comment on this and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. The vestment press you mentioned is now in the vestry, it is filled with run-of-the-mill polyester chasubles. The only old work I saw in it was a fairly plain, but evidently early, red burse and a tapestry chasuble and stole decorated with diced braid. Nothing else appeared to survive I'm sorry to say. Although I admit that I didn't venture into the lowest draw, which appeared to be full of brown paper. Neither did I delve into the lowest reaches of the chest containing the frontals and hangings. A return visit is needed I think. <br /><br />I will see if things can be improved, but I suspect there is little hope.Allan Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499774849106432968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-6944545268400380342010-01-05T10:34:42.705+00:002010-01-05T10:34:42.705+00:00May I cast some light on the altar frontals and h...May I cast some light on the altar frontals and hangings at East Markham?<br /><br />In 1988 I organized an exhibition of Comper's work at the RIBA's former Heinz Gallery in Portman Square, London. At the opening a fussy little woman spoke to me and said she was from East Markham. She ran a local interior decorating firm (curtain making) and said she had come to the exhibition to see Comper's textiles as she was replacing his work in the church. My heart sank because I could see at a glance that disaster would follow. I tried to explain that she needed to be careful and copy what was already there, though worn and faded, but an expert hand was needed to do the work properly. Flaring nostrils and declarations that she was an artist with years of experience and so on followed. Subsequently I spoke to the vicar of the time but he said he had full confidence in her as she was so artistic and had taste. Neither were true and the results are recorded in your photographs. They are suburbanism incarnate.<br /><br />What pleases and surprises me, however, is that what was left of Comper's own hangings were retained and not thrown away. That is good news and I hope Alan Barton will succeed in securing an improvement. But I suspect that the woman who made the new work is still alive and he may find resistance.<br /><br />At one time there was a vestment press kept in the tower of the church. It contained a beautiful, early and wonderfully simple red silk chasuble designed by Comper and made by the Sisters of Bethany. I have no idea if it still exists but, if so, it is worth tracking down.<br /><br />As for the restoration as a whole, it was one of the 7th Duke of Newcastle's ventures of 1896-7 but came to an early end because of a difference between him and Comper over drastic alterations the Duke wanted to make to Clumber church. You can read about it in my book on Comper and in the National Trust Guide, written by Gavin Stamp and myself and, I think, still in print. This was unfortunate because Comper had designed an organ screen for the chancel, a development on an earlier one at St Ives in Huntingdonshire. He used elements of the design in later work, notably at St Margaret's, Braemar, but without an organ.<br /><br />Peter Mullins<br /><br />The angels are not standard Watts productions. The origin of the Nuremburg angels lay in a German medieval original bought in Nuremburg, once in the possession of Bodley and kept in his drawing office in Grays Inn. He and Comper had a refined version modelled and cast by Barkentin and Krall in the late 1880s. They were first used on the wall behind the reredos in the chapel of St Margaret's covent, Aberdeen. Thereafter Comper used them on the riddel posts of the first Gothic (or English) altar in the clergy house chapel of St Matthew's, Westminster, and for many of his subsequent Gothic altars. They were replaced by new standing figures modelled for the high altar at Stockross, Berkshire, in 1905-7 and rarely used by him thereafter.<br /><br />When Barkentin & Krall came to an end in the early 1930s they stopped being made. Watts might well have sold them but so did the Warham Guild. Like much of his early work, Comper came to repudiate them as the standard of casting had deteriorated and he had embraced neo-Classical modelling for figures.<br /><br />Billy D<br /><br />In Comper's own lifetime he came to regard his early Gothic altars not as four-post beds, but box beds. You have to be a Scot to understand the reference. Box beds were inserted into walls and sometimes hung with curtains. They still exist in old houses and tenements.Anthony Symondson SJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-67600013042821428322010-01-05T09:23:46.761+00:002010-01-05T09:23:46.761+00:00@Peter
Though used frequently by Comper, I think i...@Peter<br />Though used frequently by Comper, I think it was Bodley who came up with the design for the angels. He took the design from fifteenth century examples he had seen in Nuremberg. It is because of the Bodley pedigree that Watts still produce them. Some new ones have been introduced at St Birinus in Dorchester-on-Thames, http://medieval-church-art.blogspot.com/2008/09/dorchester-roman-catholic-church.htmlAllan Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499774849106432968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-46564549985363595392010-01-04T20:35:14.076+00:002010-01-04T20:35:14.076+00:00The angels are off the peg Watts - there are some ...The angels are off the peg Watts - there are some in Grimsby today (funnily enough placed there by Walter Tapper at the time of the First World War) and I saw identical ones in a case in Manchester Cathedral recently. Do you know of an explicit Comper link?Peter Mullinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07970212201798943640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-53412907463477723952010-01-02T15:57:31.986+00:002010-01-02T15:57:31.986+00:00Happy New Year to you, Allan & family, and to ...Happy New Year to you, Allan & family, and to your readers. I agree with BillyD, and hope you will be able to restore the hangings to their rightful glory.Minniehttp://minniebeaniste.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-83561023272060399302010-01-01T17:24:54.180+00:002010-01-01T17:24:54.180+00:00Horrors! They will rot for this sacrilege! What pa...Horrors! They will rot for this sacrilege! What passes for a frontal is indeed a disgrace, but nothing compared with the loss of the Comper hangings.<br /><br />The glass is early and especially lovely. Thanks, Alan, for taking the time to document it.Davis d'Amblynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-69756572201625351992010-01-01T10:48:29.754+00:002010-01-01T10:48:29.754+00:00Cut the wires of the all-seeing eye of CCTV !
Our ...Cut the wires of the all-seeing eye of CCTV !<br />Our late parish Deacon in the early 1970's "took into care" the altar rails [and several altar missals ] just before they were to be felled and hid them in his garage, thus, thirty years later when a more congenial priest was appointed they were able to be restored and are still in use.Happy New year !Alan Robinson.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-43864676849858257982009-12-31T22:11:11.387+00:002009-12-31T22:11:11.387+00:00I think you have a very valid point. However, give...I think you have a very valid point. However, given the proximity of East Markham to the parish I serve in, I probably won't. I certainly intend to do something active about it.Allan Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499774849106432968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-7750358416122571622009-12-31T21:49:44.790+00:002009-12-31T21:49:44.790+00:00You should not only have looked at the other fabri...You should not only have looked at the other fabrics but nicked them [as moral theologians say] acting as steward and guardian,ready and willing to return them when the Revolution is over.The next time that you go they'll probably be in black bin bags,as were Dr Adrian Fortsecue's distinguished and beautiful vestments at Letchworth.Fortunately, they were rescued and are now in the sacristy of a Catholic school. Alan RobinsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-64457365329488244562009-12-31T21:44:33.861+00:002009-12-31T21:44:33.861+00:00Indeed so, particularly given the sheet that is dr...Indeed so, particularly given the sheet that is draped over the altar.Allan Bartonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00499774849106432968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3313295143497097608.post-54116800734168009342009-12-31T21:13:13.634+00:002009-12-31T21:13:13.634+00:00The riddel posts without the hangings make the alt...The riddel posts without the hangings make the altar look like a four-poster bed.The Religious PĂcarohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03620636294081499041noreply@blogger.com